Is it more fun to lead a WAR guild than a WoW guild?

Blackweb@The Vault has a lot more fun leading his guild in WAR than he did in WoW and explains why pretty clearly.

One of the reasons he gives is that guilds in WoW, particularly raid guilds, compete for members.

In wow, my guilds greatest enemies were other guilds from my own faction. Poaching guild members was rampant, promises of instant epics common. I actually had another guild merge with mine with the intention of taking my best players and leaving.

During my time raiding in WoW and being a guild officer in a raid guild I have seen a lot of the same behaviour dynamics. I don’t know many guilds who deliberately ‘poach’ but all the higher end raid guilds are very aware that their best source of new geared, experienced raiders will be people from other raid guilds. Turnover can be high, people regularly burn out, recruitment is continuous for particularly desired classes/specs. Part of the incentive to compete over speed of clearing raid instances is for bragging rights and being more easily able to attract new raiders from less ‘elite’ guilds.

Blackweb continues (talking about WAR now):

We have good relations with other guilds and work with them on a regular basis. WAR is the most fun I have ever had playing a pvp based MMO since early planetside. Mythics strong stand against exploiters, gold spammers, power levelers helps us keep our guild free of exploiters and play the game as it was meant to be played. WARs living guild concept is great. Everyone celebrates when the guild ranks up and works hard to achieve the next guild rank. Everyone gets involved in helping build the guild. No one steals items from the guild bank. Member turnover is low.

Even allowing for the game only being a few weeks old and in its honeymoon period, again what he reflects here is behaviour that I have seen too. Particularly the incentive for guilds and raids to work together as opposed to always competing for resources.

I’ve said before that I also find it more fun to lead raids in WAR than WoW for many of the same reasons. Part is the fun you can have with strategy and second guessing live opponents, and part is for the fun of working together with other raids from your own realm.

I think the points that blackweb makes here are very core to the feel of both games. And really, if the leaders aren’t having fun and are burning out, how good can that really be for the state of any game?

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5 Responses

  1. I agree with this 1000%. Guilds in WAR are immensely more fun. You feel much more like a guild with the simple common goal of raising the guild XP bar and getting rewards. Passing the right to bear the standard around gets everyone really excited; people do crazy things trying to protect the standard bearer and the standard itself. =) And since looting in PQs and getting loot is such a small thing, theft of members? Meh. If they want to leave, that’s cool; we’re still on the same side.

  2. I think it is way too early to comment on this and it is a pretty unbalanced view, i.e. two negative experiences in WOW (going into its second expansion and 4th Year) compared to ‘in progress’ assessment of WAR (only live a month tomorrow). Does anyone really think playing a different game will mean different people/personalities playing with you?

    I’d guess that once the more 24 hour Warbands/Sieges start more ‘hardcore’ guilds will start forming (Mythic should have called them Regiments!!)…. people will come and go, burn out will happen. Poaching good PVP players will happen due to player ambition/delusions of grandeur etc… although it is WAY too soon to say.

    I don’t see why if someone does something in one game, they wont do it in another. Game mechanics can only encourage behaviours. The last statement translates to….. if someone is a dick in WOW… they will still be a dick in WAR!!!!

    Frankly, WAR has not been live long enough to even guess what will happen once 40 cap players start getting itchy feet waiting of their guildies levelling alts etc. But I can say I seriously doubt WAR will be fundamentally personality changing. And the comparison to WOW is only of negative experiences, perhaps a common one, but only one side of a coin, and an old argument. You can Raid in Pick up groups in WOW now fairly easily if you wanted to. Not all casual players are DICKS!

    My view on Guilds is they are best formed as a few friends and some alliances made with other friend guilds. These are the only ones that truely work if you choose your alliance wisely and this is easier than you think. Group with people whio are not DICKS!!

    In my Guild I can honestly say that there are no drama queens, petty generals, jumped up self important ‘officer’ types, or loot whores (well maybe we have the latter!!!). People have been playing long enough to know what is bad behaviour, or perhaps this is simply because they would get the piss taken out of them for these behaviours, mercilessly!! And they would only be there after all these years if they can dish it out as good as they take it, We are an Irish/Scottish guild, /CHEER FOR THE CELTS. I HATE the concept of Guild Officers…. it’s so Anglo Saxon!!! You only need shepherds for sheep.

    I actually wonder if the Guild levelling mechanic in WAR will kill off smaller ‘friends’ guilds and lead to a very few Uber guilds, with a lot of petty Generals running them! Our guild is leveling… but slowly with only a few friends!!

    Pick up recruiting guilds are only really good for levelling, and maybe finding a few friends. They are always are open for ‘poaching’ because the people in them are not really playing with their friends. We’ve all tried them, raiding is better done with friends made in real life or through other games, and if the game mechanic supports smaller groups then it is helping you.

    I agree that Friend Guilds are not as common as… well… crap guilds… but I’m guessing there will be less incentive to leaving a larger guild and forming smaller more friendly warbands later in WAR because of the Guild levelling Mechanics they have built… BUT…. it is WAY too early to tell, and so far they seem to have made lots of well informed design decisions.

    I’ve found that the changes Blizzard made to Raiding (and in effect guilds) have actually been very successful. I Raided 40 mans through to very nearly clearing Naxxramas and lost my real life doing it… pre Burning Crusade. The commitment required to do this took over everything. You had to endure people that you wouldn’t go for a pint with because of the numbers and quality of play/gear required for that level of Raiding. The group had to gear up people they didnt really know, and random recruits were picked for their gear alone. Then Burning Crusade wiped out the 40 man, which I initially hated, but can now see why…. it works for some but not everyone.

    Fortunately I made a few good friends doing this. I now run a much smaller Guild (run being an exaggeration, the Guild leader position in a level 1 alt) we all turn up on time… ish, and if someone isn’t there we know they’ll have a very good reason or have pissed their partner off!!!).
    Good progression is possible in WOW with 10-12 players, even playing casually, you wont get a world first but who cares!!! We use flexible Alliances with a similar ‘friend guilds’ for 25 man raids, NEED/GREED rolls…. no dramas, if someone wins its Grats… ya b@stard!!! We don’t use DKP/officer chat and have two ranks, BAWBAG and MAJOR BAWBAG. The latter is awarded if you have been one!!! I think it works because the people we play with all know who needs what and no one thinks they are better. I have never had to kick a player out of the guild, some have left for grander things but were welcomed back once they realised friends were better than PHAT LEWT…

    WOW Fanboy alert….. but one tempered with this FACT… I have the Collectors Edition and have a six month subscription!!! I think Mythic have a potentially great RVR environment here, and am supporting it with my cash….I am on the other ‘quieter’ RP server Maikkason as Destruction DOK(and enjoying it). BUT…..Patch 3.0.2 for WOW went in Yesterday and the guild in WOW all now have our Jenkins surname!! Blizzards Achievements is fun as well and no one was complaining about the new Career changes. I suppose many people are doing the same, and it will be quieter in WAR land this weekend!!!

  3. Awesome comment, Crowley. I feel strongly about this one because my raid split after the beginning of TBC, the stresses of transferring from 40 man to 25/10 just became too much.

    I’ve also raided in a casual guild which was great but we had a constant stream of raiders leaving (after we’d trained them 🙂 ) to more hardcore guilds that made it harder and harder to keep going.

    I also spent a while in a more hardcore raid group that split after the raid leaders burned out.

    So my experience of TBC has been of how much stress and effort it is to keep a raid group going. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate WoW and I really enjoyed raiding, but jeez the sheer stress of having to constantly recruit and constantly fret about having balanced raids really did do my head in. And I think this dynamic is actually core to the whole raid game.

    If you can get a solid 10/25 man group together, it’s awesome. If not, it can be a world of pain and frustration in my experience. Like I say, we had a friendly casual raid group and it did keep together until the end of TBC but it was tough sometimes, and core members did sometimes leave for more hardcore raids. Knowing that the only way you’ll get to see some content is by switching guilds is a very very strong motivator.

    It is too soon to call on WAR but I do find it appealing that guilds on the same ‘side’ are encouraged to work together rather than always competing. I don’t think a game can change basic human nature, no. But I think there are a lot of people who felt impelled to leave their guilds for progression when they really would have preferred not to.

  4. Still agree 1000% here.

    Here a small, incomplete band of friends can get somewhere together in this game; get great gear, see all the sights, etc. It doesn’t take weeks of practice, strat-studying, or kicking people out of the raid/guild for making a mistake. Pick-up groups have been much more successful in this game than any run I’ve had in WoW (Heroics, lawl).

    Does this change human nature? No.
    Does this tap a different aspect of human nature? Yes.

    It fosters cooperation, while WoW fostered pure competition…I’d even say it fostered confrontation.

  5. O M G Blackweb is playing WAR! Really shouldn’t surprise me as it’s probably a more suitable game for him than WoW was. I really hope he takes advantage of this fresh start and keeps his head low and just enjoy the damn game instead of trying to go Don Quixote and right imaginary wrongs.

    But I will agree that WAR gives guilds more to work with than just the glorified chat channel WoW gives you.

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