Predictions for the Nerfbat

Class balance is not impossibly bad in Warhammer, I’ve seen much worse in other games. I’ve seen both sides totally demolish the other in scenarios, so organisation and a good mix of classes trumps any individual ‘overpowered’ class. Melee dps is also generally tougher to play in PvP, although we get smushed by melee heavy Destruction teams in scenarios quite often.

As far as the balance goes, it seems to me as though Order was always intended to have stronger ranged classes and  defensive-based hybrids and Destruction intended to have stronger melee and more offensive based hybrids. I think these are deliberate characteristics and we do see them in play, with some exceptions. Bear in mind we’re all playing Order so there’s some Order bias here. All this really means is that I haven’t been on the receiving end of our classes to judge them.

I’m also (mostly) picking on mechanics rather than classes here. These are places where the mechanic seems more powerful than intended.

Mythic have said in their State of the Game that they are planning to do a balancing pass over classes with an emphasis on buffing rather than nerfing. Here I think the nerf bat is inevitable. Hopefully classes will be buffed and balanced after this to make sure they are where they need to be.

Dual Wield Procs

Destruction melee is totally over the top at the moment. In Tier 4 you can really see it. So my tips for nerfing are Marauders, Witch Elves, and Disciples. What do they have in common? They are all fast hitting dual wielders. And the overpowered aspect? The abilities they have which have a chance to happen on every melee hit. Order has no duel wielders (the Witch Hunter has a gun but that isn’t fast hitting) to match this. And their procs (damage, huge heal debuffs, whatever else they get) simply go off way too often. An internal cooldown of some sort would tone this down. Witch Elves in particular seem to scale off the roof. I realise they are fragile etc and I expect to die to them a lot on my Archmage but they do a huge amount of burst damage to better armoured characters also. I think the mechanics need to be checked over to bring them into line.

Marauders in particular seem to also get a lot of AE crowd control for a class that also does so much AE damage. I have no problem with the amount of damage, but the knockdowns could use a toning pass.

I’m not thrilled about the tentacle pull/fetch ability but a single player CC isn’t as crippling. However, when the marauder can follow the pull up with a stun (knockdown) or disable … not fun.

Mass Pull

Magus/ Engineer mass pull. This has to go. It’s not remotely fun to be on the end of a mass pull/AE crowd control/AE nuke instant-kill. It also does bad things to my lag. It’s not so much the ability itself (although it does cause lag) as when it’s followed by a large amount of root/knockdown/disable and then AE death. NOT FUN.

Being able to pull things through keep doors is simply a bug that needs to be sorted out. [arbitrary – being able to do damage through keep doors on both sides needs to go too]

Now, about them Bright Wizards

On Order side, Bright Wizards do way more damage with DoT spec than anything else on the battlefield. Even it up so that all their specs do similar damage and let them pick which form of dps they prefer. And that means toning down the spec or specific talents in it that is currently overpowered.

My feeling in Tier 4 is that Sorceress/ Bright Wizard damage is roughly on par, so need to watch this carefully while balancing. Sorceresses are in no way underpowered in Tier 4.

Balancing for Tiers

I can live with some classes being overpowered in lower tiers as long as they are all brought into line in Tier 4, but there’s a limit to how overpowered any given class should be. Maybe the answer to this is to give out more resists at lower tiers or scale the damage up more slowly. But we really do notice when different classes get similar abilities at different ranks (eg. knockbacks for order or heal debuffs for destruction melee) because it changes how the whole tier plays.

I think a pass through the different abilities to try to make similar ones available at similar levels would make the levelling game more fun.

11 Responses

  1. The amount of each class on a server really affects the perception of class balance. If you are in a scenario with 5 Bw’s or Sorcs… you are likely going to think something is overpowered.

    Sorcs are in no way weak. On our server they are generally tops in damage in T3 scenarios. That Pit of Death is really awful.

  2. Personally I don’t really see the problem with rift\magnet, it’s a tool that needs co-ordination to get the most out of it, and I think that should be rewarded. The range and cooldown could perhaps be toned down, but other than that it seems fine.

  3. I think rift/magnet/pull/fetch could be sorted somewhat with longer cooldowns. I don’t mind getting nabbed by a Marauder, but if I manage to survive and claw my way back to my own lines, the last thing I want to see is the same Marauder doing it again straight away. A 40-60 second cooldown seems more reasonable.

  4. I think the Rift/Magnet powers do need to go, or need to be changed. They are primarily disruptive to game play. Timed well, I’ve seen Engineers do some wicked things with that, AoE Root, Lightening Rod, and a few Bright wizards bringing out the AoE Pain. It’s rather disgusting. I don’t like it at all. The Single target fetch is pretty bad too, I find.

    I’m mildly surprised that Order doesn’t have Dual wielders at all, a few 2h Users, it seems, but nothing dual blades like. It seems like almost all of the Dark Elves will be dual wielding. (Story goes, the Black Guard will) And over all, it’s a nice damage proc, but does it really effect dps that much? I’ll have to see the numbers.

    Over all, I would be curious to see ver 1.1 patch notes early, so we can learn what’s in the works.

  5. Bright Wizards do way more damage with DoT spec than anything else on the battlefield

    Sssshhhh! No we don’t. It’s a trick of the light, that’s not a Bright Wizard topping the damage charts, it’s a weather balloon. Maybe swamp gas.

    OK, maybe a little toning down of the Path of Immolation wouldn’t be entirely unjustified. Though I’m starting to use AoE stuff more now, I should probably have a look as those mastery options…

  6. Perhaps changing the AoE pull to a cone effect hitting the nearest 3 players within the cone, at more like a 40 foot range would be appropriate. This would allow other players stepping in front of healers… more dynamic to the tanks, anyone?

  7. […] Nerd Rage So for some reason, bloggers this morning are beginning to lose their cool with the Warhammer community. From finally cutting their ties with writers who mix politics and gaming, to finally being fed up with the Doom-Saying, Balance-Crying. They’re offering more logical and slightly less biased suggestions. […]

  8. So I guess it leaves an auto-post on your site every time I link to your blog… is this supposed to happen? Great post either way.

  9. @ Tony

    Well white lions are virtual duel wielders, they have their axe plus their pet, when its alive, unfortunately the lion isn’t allowed buffs and doesn’t get procs.

  10. […] 1.1… Or Not. I would like to give a prediction for 1.1… Okay, so I cheated. I was given some information, by a source whom I will not describe but tend to trust. Time will tell. My opinions generally follow the same lines as those at Book of Grudges. […]

  11. rpthatway: Yeah, wordpress does add an automatic link every time someone links to a post.

    It has good sides as well as bad sides which is why we haven’t turned it off, and you may find that people reading the post and comments will see that someone else referenced it and go check what you had to say.

    So if you are trying to get more readers, it’s actually a really good idea to link to other blogs.

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